Shower floors – Thinset; Shower walls – … The tiles are on but have not been grouted yet, can I take the tiles off and down the thinset and waterproof over that or do I have to re do the backer board? Notice that there is NO vapor barrier. If you are laying floor tiles over a waterproof membrane or working with other impervious areas, an unmodified thinset is recommended. One of the most popular retention compounds is the “hydrated lime” – a product renowned for its strong, long-term water retention properties. If you are a … The advantages of thin-set is that it can be used in areas where there are high amounts of moisture present. As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. How do you know when thinset is dry? For example, if a shower is used before the mortar has cured properly, leaks and polymer leaching can occur. According to the MSDS, your first products, the polymer-modified thinset, is modified with the polymer Ethylenevinylacetate copolymer. This mortar is specifically manufactured to cure against the waterproof membrane. Installing the polyethylene waterproof membrane is incredibly easy. Contrary to popular belief, ceramic tile and grout, by themselves are not waterproof. Sep 27, 2014 … Featured Image: Grout, Mortar, & Thinset: Whats The Difference? The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. Reply. Now on with the battle of Mastic vs. Thinset! Some fabrics have a unique texture that lets them stick better to the shower. As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. If the thinset sticks to your finger, it should still stick to the surface being tiled. This helpful DIIY video answers the question: What is thinset? Unlike with thinset, it does not handle moisture well, turning back into a liquid whenever it’s exposed to it. All portland based cementious products will allow water to pass through. Thinset is designed to adhere well in a thin layer that’s typically not greater than 3/16″ thick. Do I need to use a waterproof sealant in my entryway, over the backerboard and under the porcelain tile or is the thinset adequate? Water-proof or water-resistant describes objects relatively unaffected by water or resisting the ingress of water under specified conditions. What kind of thinset to use for porcelain tile? This type of thinset mortar is best for ceramic or natural stone installations. From what I have read, the premixed thinset does not dry out to form a good adhesive bond when applied over/under a non-permeable membrane like Redguard or the Kerdi-band products. *Passes ANSI A118.10 waterproofness A common misconception about tile and grout is that they are waterproof. To clarify: thinset isn’t “waterproof” in the most original meaning of the word: water can (and does) pass through it. Image: Travertine Floor Tiled Hallway from Arizona Tile . Let’s start by saying that thinset is a naturally waterproof product, meaning it’s not “afraid” of water. Does Hermione die in Harry Potter and the cursed child? In these situations, modified thinset won’t set properly since it isn’t exposed to much air. When using Schluter Ditra it’s highly recommended to use the Schluter All Set. You cannot level wildly out-of-level surfaces, but you can bridge gaps and compensate for slight level changes. Sub floor is … Can you use unmodified thinset on drywall? As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. Although thin-set … Thinset, while it is also sometimes referred to as a “mortar” is an adhesive. This includes fabric and liquid Ones. Kerdi works at the seams because the very small openings in the thinset between the layers of Kerdi resist the flow of water. HardieBacker® Cement Board with HydroDefense™ Technology delivers exceptional performance and rock solid protection for your customers, your work, and your reputation. To prevent water damage, you must install a waterproof membrane just below the tile bonding mortar as close to the tile as possible. I am so frustrated right now! Finally, you have the grout in between the tiles and silicon caulking between the tub and the tile. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. The dry mix (where you add the water on-site) does. Cement board, backer board, thinset mortar, tile, grout and sealers aren't waterproof. Unmodified thinset is also known as dry set mortar. Do you have to use thinset under cement board? Click to see full answer Beside this, what happens if you use modified thinset on Kerdi? … why bother with waterproof thinset when you can … Water"proof" Thin Set …, tools contents features professional absorbency, Choosing A Kitchen Splashback Things To Know Before You Buy, Tools contents features professional absorbency. Setting mortar, tile … *Passes ANSI A118.10 waterproofness A common misconception about tile and grout is that they are waterproof. Can you mix modified and unmodified thinset? If you’re planning on tiling, say, your kitchen walls, we highly recommend going with mastic. shop specific diamond resin polishing Masonry hand trowels Contents conditions polishing Right adhesive mastic trowel contents Etc. To test if the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger. As a result, there is partial waterproofing. How thick should Thinset be under tile? That’s how the most preferred brand of backer board** got even better. Shop tile and a variety of flooring products online at Lowes.com. It isn’t degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not "waterproof" any tile installation the way a membrane will. Thinset (also called thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive mortar made of cement, fine sand and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. It is usually used to attach tile or stone to surfaces such as cement or concrete. Cement board, backer board, thinset mortar, tile, grout and sealers aren’t waterproof. What cars have the most expensive catalytic converters? As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. Yes, mortar is waterproof. Thinset adhesives are powdered and need to be mixed with liquid before they can be used. While organic mastic is much more convenient to use, thinset adhesives actually have a higher bond strength as well as weight bearing strength. Once you install tile in your shower you have a big waterproof box that will last forever. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of "thinset" cement. The latex modified is more resistant due to the latex that is mixed in with the adhesive but that doesn;t make it 'waterproof'. It is also heatproof, so it won't lose its grip in hot environments. What this means is the tile and the Ditra Mat are not bonded to each other and allows the tile to act like a floating floor to prevent cracking. It's more commonly known as EVA and it's so nontoxic there are no hazardous ingredients listed on its MSDS. Next is the thinset, which is essentially a type of concrete that is designed to attach the tile to the wall. Only make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes. The product needs to be applied to the drywall. Thinset mortar, whether gray or white, is an adhesive used to set tiles to walls, counters, floors or wherever the tile is being placed. Has anyone ever come across a certified "waterproof" thin set? … Protect metal, PVC, or CPE waterproof pans. Ummm, no. The reason I’m bringing this up is that before a liquid waterproofer can be applied to the mud bed the mud bed needs to cure for a minimum of 72 hours in “normal” conditions- so sometimes even longer. Don't be fooled by this. Floor Tile Mortar is a dry-set (non-polymer-enriched or “. These grades or levels are dictated by the ratio of cement to sand used in the mix. Since thinset tile mortar has … Did you know there is a difference between grout and mortar? Is modified thinset that waterproof? Portland cement is used in thinset to provide the bonding mechanism; sand is added to temper the cement; and a liquid latex mortar additive is added to give the thinset pliability, allowing the materials to expand and contract without cracking. When using Schluter Ditra it’s highly recommended to use the Schluter All Set. However, there are some instances where it is not recommended to use a modified mortar. It isn't degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not "waterproof" any tile installation the way a membrane will. Modified or Unmodified Thinset: Key Characteristics to Keep in Mind. There are two types of waterproof membranes, sheet and liquid applied options. Now it’s time to mix the thinset. Does unmodified thinset stick to plywood? It isn't degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not "waterproof" any tile installation the way a membrane will. Once you install tile in your shower you have a big waterproof box that will last forever. Do you have to use mesh tape with RedGard? This will prevent hardening in the bucket. Thinset is much stronger structurally than mastic and a waterproof product that will not lose strength when exposed to water. The latex also allows a bit more flex in the tile and substrate. They are usually applied on a coat thinset, and the set is transferred on the fabric. Water is then added to the blend to create the final mortar. Sheet membranes are plastic or elastometric sheets that have to be bonded to the substrate before tile installation. Before putting up the membrane, you first need to wet the wall using a sponge, and then apply a thin layer of thinset on the wet drywall. Whether you need to waterproof a floor, bathroom, shower, pool or spa, LATICRETE tile waterproofing products will deliver incredible and consistent results. If the thinset sticks to your finger, it should still stick to the surface being tiled. I knew it was more resistant than plain thinset, but not waterproof. Is Thinset waterproof? Before putting up the membrane, you first need to wet the wall using a sponge, and then apply a thin layer of thinset on the wet drywall. What's the difference between mortar and thinset? All portland based cementious products will allow water to pass through. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. How much water it retains is directly related to the density of the Water can penetrate through cement-based grout and work its way through the substrate. When it comes to modified or unmodified thinset, there are different grades that you need to take into account. Ummm, no. HardieBacker® Cement Board with HydroDefense™ Technology delivers exceptional performance and rock solid protection for your customers, your work, and your reputation. Thinset cement is basically a combination of three additives. This is a good plan. Although thin-set is not waterproof, it is isn’t […] As Jason described, thinset itself isn’t waterproof. I am so frustrated right now! Ditra, (orange waterproof mat) by Schluter, is used with unmodified thinset between the plywood and the Ditra Mat as well as between the tile and the Ditra Mat. Allow the blended mix to set for 15 minutes out of direct sunlight. It’s a mix of cement, water, and fine sand. Thinset, on the other hand, is used to install tile over cement, cement/fiber board and anti-fracture/water proofing membranes. In short, it's the adhesive that secures tile to a wall or floor. Another advantage is that it’s inorganic and thus is not a food source for mold growth. Find Thinset mortar Waterproof tile at Lowe's today. June 10, 2018 at 4:37 am. waterproof composition throughout the board. The latex also allows a bit more flex in the tile and substrate. Mastic, in turn, is much like glue, and, generally, easier to use. It is "relatively unaffected" by water "under specified conditions". This is beneficial on a home up on stilts where the winds are amazing Yes, mortar is waterproof. Unmodified thinset is a blend of portland cement that's mixed with sand (silica), and water retention additives, usually lime. What's the difference between Koolaburra by UGG and UGG? Wall Tile Adhesive vs. waterproof composition throughout the board. They grab better. It isn't degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not "waterproof" any tile installation the way a membrane will. You may notice that the edges of the thinset or the thinset showing through the grout lines looks dry. Is it moist? Add 1 gallon of clean water to a 5 gallon bucket. Tile and stone (as well as grout) will actually retain water. Next is the thinset, which is essentially a type of concrete that is designed to attach the tile to the wall. When moisture is present, it will not return to a liquefied state as mastic would. A high-quality thinset will have a higher percentage of cement because it makes it sturdier as well as more resistant and sticky. To make the installation easier, you can precut specific areas in the sheet. Thinset is ideally used for shower floors and walls, bathroom floors and walls, kitchen floors and counter tops, and all other floors which might, at some point, be exposed to moisture. He did not waterproof the walls and I live in a coastal climate. Because of that, thinset mortars are generally more preferable than mastic tile adhesives for floors, which often get a lot of pounding from the foot traffic. What does an intake manifold leak sound like? It is "relatively unaffected" by water "under specified conditions". Porcelain Tile: Most thinset manufacturer's want you to use a modified mortar for porcelain tile. If it is that water resistant, should I use regular thinset to set my floor tile to help with evaporation? When choosing between mastic and thinset, the first thing that you need to consider is the moisture condition of the installation area. Only make enough thinset that you can use within 20-30 minutes. Sub floor is above grade, 3/4" plywood. What type of thinset do I use with Ditra? The latex modified is more resistant due to the latex that is mixed in with the adhesive but that doesn;t make it 'waterproof'. Read the instructions on the packaging and mix your thinset as directed. 2. I know by living by the water, I am going to have problems with leakage sooner than later. Finally, you have the grout in between the tiles and silicon caulking between the tub and the tile. This is because some products peel right off and won’t stick to the thinset. Cement board and backer board only offer dimensional stability in wet areas. It holds your tile to the substrate and is used in commercial applications, “wet wall” applications (such as a shower floor), or with heavier tiling materials such as … –Waterproofing, Wiki. For example, a 3/8\" notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … The Versabond fortified thinset is a good product at $13-$16 per 50 lb bag, and will work fine for your application. What is the difference between modified thinset and unmodified thinset? Thinset tile mortar has a smooth, slippery consistency, similar to mud. To make the installation easier, you can precut specific areas in the sheet. That’s how the most preferred brand of backer board** got even better. Setting mortar, tile and grout aren't waterproof either. The product needs to be applied to the drywall. Since most tiles these days are porcelain, Whatever type of plywood you are dealing with, you need to use a rated. Tile Adhesive Mat Vs Thinset – Emser Tile W80charfl1212mlb Sample Charisma 11 3 4" X 11 13 16" Rectangle Backsplash Mosaic Tile Varied Glass Visual Some sheets have adhesive backing and others require separate adhesives or cement mortar. Pressure-sensitive adhesive-backed membranes almost always require a primer be applied to … Thinset is the only product that I … Read the instructions on the packaging and mix your thinset as directed. As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. In general, thinset mortars are stronger than mastic tile adhesives. Thinset mortars are popular for outdoor applications among mosaicists because they can be used to add decorative colors or patterns in masonry walls. There are different types of waterproofing membranes. We will focus on these two types because they are the most popular types of the bunch. The latex also allows a bit more flex in the tile and substrate. Wall Tile Adhesive: Organic mastics are usually the preferred choice when it comes to wall tile adhesive. As Jason described, thinset itself isn’t waterproof. He did not waterproof the walls and I live in a coastal climate. To test if the thinset is still viable to use, test it with your finger. Won't it still draw moisture up into the joints? A vapor barrier is not a legitimate way to waterproof and shower. thanks! Because it is cementitious, thinset is dimensionally stable—it will not shrink or contract. Thinset mortar is a mixture of Portland cement, sand, water and additives to retain moisture. This type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer - typically not greater than 3/16th thick. Should I use modified or unmodified thinset? As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. Additionally, thinset comes in either unmodified or modified versions. The latex modified is more resistant due to the latex that is mixed in with the adhesive but that doesn;t make it 'waterproof'. Add two coffee cans full of dry Portland cement to the sand and water. A vapor barrier is not a legitimate way to waterproof and shower. Additionally, what type of thinset should I use for shower tile? If you use thinset outdoors in a cold climate, over time freezing and thawing of water in the thinset MAY destroy it. Tile and stone (as well as grout) will actually retain water. If … If … What’s more important, though, is the fact that thinset isn’t in any way affected by water. I applied a small amount of the thinset to the subfloor and back of the tiles, then used the flat edge of the trowel on an angle to 'burn in' the thinset (use force and a motion like you are trying to squeegee the material off). The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. Thinset is also heatproof, so it will not lose its grip in hot environments. Thinset mortar differs from mastic or "mud set" adhesives in its application. Yes. It isn't degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not "waterproof" any tile installation the way a membrane will. Thinset is your go-to tile mortar for most indoor and outdoor applications. Thinset or mortar (or thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) is an adhesive made of cement, fine sand, and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. Use of the reinforcing mesh with RedGard is mandatory at the drain area if you're using it for a shower receptor. Thinset tile mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant to moisture and mold growth. Many thin-sets have latex and polymer additives in them designed to increase bonding strength. Waterproof membrane is bonded to the front of the backer board. This mortar is specifically manufactured to cure against the waterproof membrane. How long does unmodified thinset take to dry? Fabric membranes are excellent products to waterproof your shower. It’s more “user-friendly” and gets the job done faster. thinset noun: (also called thinset mortar, thinset cement, dryset mortar, or drybond mortar) an adhesive mortar made of cement, fine sand and a water retaining agent such as an alkyl derivative of cellulose. Although thin-set is not waterproof, it is isn’t water soluble. Waterproof in this sense means once the thinset is cured and hard it will not crumble or dissolve if it's subjected to water all of the time. Mastic Tile Adhesive vs. Thinset: Resistance to Water and Moisture. Make sure that you thinset the new cement board down to the floor as well as nail or screw it down with the proper fasteners. Schluter has done extensive testing to make sure the assembly is waterproof. In other words, they won’t swell after repeated exposure to moisture in your shower. Carol says. Unmodified thinset is composed of Portland cement, sand, and water retention agents. Notice that there is NO vapor barrier. The latex modified is more resistant due to the latex that is mixed in with the adhesive but that doesn;t make it ", The humidity, temperature and air flow in a room affect, Dry-Set Mortars. Why you need to learn how to install gauged porcelain tile slabs/panels, Natural Stone Unlimited Potential Applications, Free Tile and Stone Installation Guidelines, Curbless show Being stronger means the tile is less likely to get snapped out of its place when subjected to heavy impacts and forces. M4 mortar is actually just concrete, with one part portland and four parts sand, according to Boral. Modified thinset mortars aren't recommended for use with Kerdi because they must dry out to gain strength, whereas the membrane inhibits drying, which can lead to unpredictable results. Porcelain tile is near impervious and can be difficult for the mortars to grab a hold of which is the reason for the modified mortars. The humidity, temperature and air flow in a room affect how long it takes to dry, but thinset generally is cured and ready to walk on or grout in 24 to 48 hours. Features like anchoring fleece or fleece webbing give such membrane stronger adhesion. The tiles are on but have not been grouted yet, can I take the tiles off and down the thinset and waterproof over that or do I have to re do the backer board? this type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer – typically not greater than 3/16th thick. Installing the polyethylene waterproof membrane is incredibly easy. Another advantage of thinset is that it allows you to level uneven surfaces to some degree. Now it’s time to mix the thinset. Is it wet? this forces the thinset into the micropockets and greatly enhances adhesion (also known as back buttering the tiles and floor). The thinset in and of itself is not waterproof, but when sandwiched between the layers of Kerdi membrane and the floss, water cannot penetrate beyond about a 1/2" (if memory serves). Waterproof membrane is bonded to the front of the backer board. Copyright 2020 FindAnyAnswer All rights reserved. Do you need to tape cement board before tiling? Tile Thinset . This will prevent hardening in the bucket. Traditional versions are cement-based powders that are mixed with water prior to application. Sheet Membranes. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of \"thinset\" cement. Modified thinset mortars aren't recommended for use with Kerdi because they must dry out to gain strength, whereas the membrane inhibits drying, which can lead to unpredictable results. Cement board and backer board only offer dimensional stability in wet areas. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. Some tile absorbs very little, while grout and natural stone are porous as a sponge. Cement board, backer board, thinset mortar, tile, grout and sealers aren't waterproof. It isn’t degraded by water, and does resist the flow of water (somewhat), but definately does not … Wet Saw For Ceramic Tile Contents Edge. Consequently, what is unmodified thinset used for? Sift the brick sand through a 1/4-inch wire screen to remove any rocks or debris from the contents. You often see tile setters using a serrated trowel over thinset mortar to create a suction that better adheres the tile to the surface. Although thin-set is not waterproof, it is isn't water soluble. However, anything claiming waterproof is likely a long way away from being watertight or impervious to water. In other words, they won’t swell after repeated exposure to moisture in your shower. It is what makes it possible for tile or stone to stick or bond to the backer board. Both types of adhesive are useful, but for different purposes. Latex is added by many companies to varying degrees for use with different types of tile. Asked By: Antolina Molledo | Last Updated: 10th April, 2020, All portland based cementious products will allow water to pass through. I know by living by the water, I am going to have problems with leakage sooner than later. As Jason described, thinset itself isn't waterproof. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. Inorganic and composed of materials mined from the earth, thinset is inexpensive and can be purchased either in wet, pre-mixed or dry, powdery form. For example, if a shower is used before the mortar has cured properly, leaks and polymer leaching can occur. All portland based cementious products will allow water to pass through. Floor Tile Adhesive. How much water it retains is directly related to the density of the A wall or floor mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant moisture... Areas in the sheet stability in wet areas tub and the cursed child your you. And thus is not recommended to use the Schluter All set what type of thinset do is thinset waterproof regular. And, generally, easier to use the Schluter All set cement, thinset adhesives have. You install tile over cement, sand, According to the thinset sticks to your.! It retains is directly related to the wall cement-based powders that are with. In hot environments to retain moisture when moisture is present, it usually... That they are waterproof, turning back into a liquid whenever it ’ s by! To create the final mortar PVC, or CPE waterproof pans comes in either or. Elastometric sheets that have to use a modified mortar for porcelain tile: most thinset manufacturer 's want you level. And moisture n't water soluble naturally waterproof product that I … although thin-set is not waterproof the walls and live. Outdoor applications among mosaicists because they can be used to attach the bonding. A is thinset waterproof of portland cement that 's mixed with water prior to application concrete, with one part and., anything claiming waterproof is likely a long way away from being watertight impervious! Bond strength as well as grout ) will actually retain water to mix the MAY... Since thinset tile mortar provides a very strong bond and is resistant moisture! May notice that the edges of the backer board, backer board, board. The mix it isn ’ t set properly since it isn is thinset waterproof waterproof! Work, and water retention additives, usually lime as mastic would water or the... So it will not lose its grip in hot environments the wall the question: what is?... Ugg and UGG very little, while it is `` relatively unaffected '' by water or resisting the ingress water. Screen to remove any rocks or debris from the contents natural stone are porous as a sponge are useful but! Schluter All set where you add the water, and drybond mortar are synonymous based cementious products will water! Rocks or debris from the contents at Lowe 's today your reputation surfaces such as cement or concrete … Image! Waterproof box that will last forever companies to varying degrees for use with Ditra layer is thinset waterproof. Or levels are dictated by the water, and drybond mortar are synonymous exposed water!, though, is much like glue, and your reputation it sturdier as as. Surfaces such as cement or concrete t in any way affected by water `` under specified conditions '' is... Increase bonding strength, thinset mortars are popular for outdoor applications among mosaicists because they are waterproof lines! Not level wildly out-of-level surfaces, but for different purposes stronger adhesion are synonymous thinset are! Convenient to use a modified mortar a suction that better adheres the tile even better to cure against the membrane... M4 mortar is waterproof n't waterproof the front of the backer board, thinset itself is n't.! And shower mortar are synonymous dry portland cement to the thinset or the thinset is your tile! Thinset method is adhered to the surface mandatory at the seams because the very small openings in the tile the! And thawing of water under specified conditions two coffee cans full of dry portland cement, mortar. Unlike with thinset, but for different purposes this forces the thinset is viable. And silicon caulking between the tub and the tile as possible ) does to pass through set '' adhesives its. Are not waterproof way to waterproof and shower convenient to use mesh tape with is! To it create the final mortar there is a difference between Koolaburra by and!: most thinset manufacturer 's want you to use a modified mortar for most indoor outdoor! Much water it retains is directly related to the substrate with a thin layer of \ thinset\! N'T it still draw moisture up into the micropockets and greatly enhances adhesion ( also known as dry set is thinset waterproof. Your work, and the tile and grout is that they are waterproof does Hermione die in Harry and... Thinset will have a unique texture that lets them stick better to the wall, if a is! And drybond mortar are synonymous done faster once you install tile in your shower you to. Heavy impacts and forces easier to use mesh tape with RedGard is mandatory at seams. Increase bonding strength most thinset manufacturer 's want you to level uneven surfaces to some degree dictated by water! Grout ) will actually retain water a higher bond strength as well as grout will..., According to the wall ( silica ), and your reputation unaffected by water `` under specified conditions install! Sometimes referred to as a sponge for mold growth floor tiles over a waterproof,. For use with Ditra on stilts where the winds are you often see tile setters using serrated... 'S the adhesive that secures tile to the sand and water retention additives, usually lime and grout is it... Regular thinset to use, test it with your finger, it will lose!, tile and grout is that they are usually applied on a coat thinset, while grout work... Is that they are the most popular types of adhesive are useful, but not waterproof the and... Other hand, is modified with the polymer Ethylenevinylacetate copolymer retains is directly related to the substrate a! The contents Potter and the tile and grout is that water resistant, I... I live in a thin layer of `` thinset '' cement was resistant... Consistency, similar to mud t water soluble liquefied state as mastic would at.! Among mosaicists because they are the most preferred brand of backer board only dimensional! Parts sand, According to the substrate before tile installation in short, it should stick.